tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post8212879902923738135..comments2023-12-03T23:16:56.786-07:00Comments on Cumbersome: Rummy Variant vs Set BuildingSeth Jaffeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12449603052617321357noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post-23734486331528126722009-07-27T14:46:41.696-07:002009-07-27T14:46:41.696-07:00Thanks for the comments - I'll make another bl...Thanks for the comments - I'll make another blog post to this effect, but it's all moot now, I think.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure the ideas I had about the Thurn & Taxis mechanism are too complicated for the game and in fact would not work that well after all. Instead, I realized yesterday, something very simple fixes most of what I thought were problems with the game...<br /><br />Instead of refilling your hand to 7 each turn after tipping, simply draw 2 cards. No hand limit, no Elsa card artificially restricting whether you can tip or not. It worked very well and made the game a lot better as far as I'm concerned.Seth Jaffeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12449603052617321357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post-66958847827925288752009-07-24T04:37:43.322-07:002009-07-24T04:37:43.322-07:00I think Sean is right in that it's the ability...I think Sean is right in that it's the ability to see what other people are drawing (or not) that probably defines a Rummy variant. Hence Ticket to Ride qualifies - and IMO improves the system slightly by having essentially 5 discard piles but no ability to draw from the "real" discard pile (which in that game doesn't really matter anyway until it is back in the draw deck.)<br /><br />I can understand your dilemma about runs vs sets but I don't know enough about the game to know how bad an issue that would be. Building your cards openly does seem quite interesting but will probably introduce hellish levels of AP.<br /><br />-- DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post-45233379410749817922009-07-23T16:59:24.664-07:002009-07-23T16:59:24.664-07:00I think I would like to just say that the 2 or 3 c...I think I would like to just say that the 2 or 3 cards a player draws in a turn can come from any combination of he deck or any opponent's discard pile (but at most 1 from each discard pile). I feel you might need this kind of openness in order to get the feeling of set building.<br /><br />In the 2 player rules there's an additional card which is face up, that gets replaced only if someone draws it. You can draw that card instead of someone's discard. I was thinking that would be good to have in multiplayer games as well, as player's discard piles change every single turn (by definition), and it would be nice to see a player's discard and that card which work together and have a chance to get both.<br /><br />Perhaps the rule should be hat at most 1 draw comes from a discard pile (or this extra card) and the rest from the deck?<br /><br />Another option is this... instead of each player having their own discard pile, just have multiple (3?) discard piles in the game, and when you discard, you choose which pile to discard to (and therefore which card to cover up). That might be a neat twist to the Lost Cities style of discarding!Seth Jaffeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12449603052617321357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post-82417366203183393842009-07-23T16:52:54.773-07:002009-07-23T16:52:54.773-07:00You are correct, another (probably better) way to ...You are correct, another (probably better) way to allow players to actively build a set would be with more options when drawing. The building sets in front of you does two things, and maybe I was not accurate in my blog post as to the reasoning for it...<br /><br />1. It helps players decide what to discard - which, as you indicate, might be bad instead of good. Without more openness in drawing then there's no basis to decide what to discard. With more openness then maybe your right, playing face up sets may effectively make people's decisions for them (see Keltis).<br /><br />2. It goes hand in hand with the draw X / play Y mechanism. I like the idea of being able to build up your hand, or throw it down faster (see Thurn & Taxis). this has less to do with the feeling of set building, except perhaps that you might draw more cards until you have set brewing in hand, then draw fewer cards and play more in order to get that set realized and cash it in.<br /><br />Looking at Wyatt Earp again, that game allows you to draw 2 cards a turn, or just 1 if you like the top discard. Maybe something like that is needed such that if you are drawing exactly the card you want, then you have to 'pay' for that by not getting as many cards. I wonder if that need apply here.Seth Jaffeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12449603052617321357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19884352.post-52708099531616624642009-07-23T16:21:36.551-07:002009-07-23T16:21:36.551-07:00So what does building sets on the table get you? T...So what does building sets on the table get you? The main effect is that other players can see what you're doing.<br /><br />You're thinking this will add tactics; I think it would mostly remove it. If you can see explicitly what everyone else needs, you know exactly what not to discard. A large part of your decision is practically made for you, because you know you should discard certain cards.<br /><br />On the other hand, if all you know about other player's possible wants are what they've picked out of discard piles, you have to think a bit harder to know what's safe to discard. You can use probability (based on which cards you've already seen), infer what possible sets people might be making based on what they've picked up or even declined to pick up, or even just look at which types of sets they might want to be making for scoring purposes.<br /><br />Actually, I think that's the main appeal of Rummy.<br /><br />If you still don't think that's enough clues, maybe making the drawing a bit more open would help. You could have 3 face up cards to draft from in addition to the possible discard piles you can pick from. There are lots of ways to do that.Sean McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06122290908439875428noreply@blogger.com